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Forum:Spelling
__NEWSECTIONLINK__ So... I think we need to discuss this issue per issue. Apart from defense/''defence'' and realise/''realize'', there is also medi(a)eval/''f(o)etus'' (of course without "o" :P) and plow (wtf America?? In Britain some people even say "pluf" instead of "plau"...) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:00, February 12, 2012 (UTC) I really don't know, though I prefer defence of defense, because -ce was the original and more logical form. Also, I prefer to use zed (z) where possible, because the sound of z is vastly more common than its letter, so its letter should become more common. Therefore, use organization and realize. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:02, February 12, 2012 (UTC) Pretty sure that's not true. I have never ever heard it pronounced 'pluf', and if you did say it like that you would be mocked. :P Also, Oos, you made a good point that we will have to catalogue every word if we have a unique Lovian spelling. --Semyon 15:06, February 12, 2012 (UTC) I have heard it, but it's dialectual. We need an outline at least, f.e. British spelling, but "o" instead of "ou" (harbor), "l" instead of "ll" (traveling). --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:09, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :and 'er' instead of 're' in words like center. And anyway: USE COLONS!. With Pierius we had problems with it, and now not= Sounds weird to me? Pierlot McCrooke 15:12, February 12, 2012 (UTC) Just cuse i'm an anglophile, I want "ou" and "re" hence "Labour Party" :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:11, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :Sounds like British spelling to me :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:14, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :We should let organizatiosn have british spellings in their names if they want but in formal texts like law we have to adhere to Lovian spelling rules Pierlot McCrooke 15:15, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::I always used colons. :::Only when they would ::::like :::::mess up ::::::the layout :::::::because some ::::::::people wouldn't :::::::::stop using them ::::::::::I would just ::stop using them. You mad? Marcaline 15:21, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :::PS: on topic, I always write words the way I feel they should be written. Sometimes correctly, sometimes not. Marcaline 15:21, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::::Well, we need to write correctly, but English people are stupid enough (:P) to disagree on their spelling, so we have two ways to write correctly (that is considering American correct :P). Imagine writing "harbour" as "harber" :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:23, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :::::In the 60's australian governement wanted to implement a simplified spelling the name of the Minstry of Health was even officially spelled Minstry of Helth. I actually like it. Spelling does not need to be based on what some Linguist in his lab says. It should be easy to write and to use in communication. I However do not want hyves spelling like schatjeuh and such Pierlot McCrooke 15:31, February 12, 2012 (UTC) Colons make a discussions easy readable Pierlot McCrooke 15:23, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :Sure they do. But not when you continue to use them for too long. Makes the page look very ugly, IMO. I use them, sure. But not religiously or fanatically. Should I? Marcaline 15:27, February 12, 2012 (UTC) I believe that either both -le and -re should be used, or neither. Not one. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:49, February 12, 2012 (UTC) I quite like this page, but we've edited it so much it now fills the entire RecentChanges page. :P --Semyon 16:07, February 12, 2012 (UTC) You can change to the past 500 edits in recentchanges preferences. Sadly, it won't let you do 1000, or 2000, or 5000. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 16:08, February 12, 2012 (UTC) Vote some more, please... --Semyon 12:35, February 16, 2012 (UTC) Voting OK, here refers to American spelling, to British. (edit: to clarify, the British is listed first in each instance.) Metre/meter, theatre/theater, centre/center * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Don't care. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:29, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * In all cases -er ending Pierlot McCrooke 15:42, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:00, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * --Donia * Let's use British spelling. Neil Hardy 19:52, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Traspes - Dianna Bartol * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:05, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) I really don't care either way. Just let users use whichever form they prefer. We've got bigger issues on the wiki atm :o Frijoles333 TALK 19:43, May 16, 2015 (UTC) Colour/color, flavour/flavor * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Color/flavor. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:30, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:50, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Traspes - Dianna Bartol 00:42, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:05, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Neil Hardy 14:35, May 18, 2015 (UTC) * The British usage seems more common in Lovia. Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Defence/defense, offence/offense * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Don't care. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:30, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Traspes - Dianna Bartol 00:42, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:05, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Neil Hardy 14:36, May 18, 2015 (UTC) * Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Connexion/connection * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Connection. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:30, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Traspes - Dianna Bartol 00:42, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:06, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * I seriously don't see how anyone could vote Contra. Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Realise/realize, organise/organize * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Realize/organize. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:31, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Traspes - Dianna Bartol 00:42, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:06, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Neil Hardy 14:37, May 18, 2015 (UTC) * Like our/or. Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Dialogue/dialog, catalogue/catalog * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Dialogue/catalogue. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:32, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) *Dialog and catalogue Traspes - Dianna Bartol 00:42, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:07, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Could be varied. Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Mediaeval/medieval, foetus/fetus * except in the single case of fetus. --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Mediaevel, but fetus. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:32, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * In both cases without the unneeded a Pierlot McCrooke 15:34, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) * Traspes - Dianna Bartol 00:42, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:08, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Propelled/propeled, labelled/labeled * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Propeled tends to get pronounced as /prou'pi:ld/ --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:46, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:08, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Skilful/skillful, fulfilment/fulfillment * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Skillful/fulfillment. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:32, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:08, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Ageing/aging, routeing/routing * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Ageing, but routing. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:33, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:09, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Learnt/learned, dreamt/dreamed * --Semyon 15:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Learnt/dreamt. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:33, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:09, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * Mezatir FictiveJ (discuss) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC) Payed/paid, layed/laid note: This is not a british vs. american spelling. * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * Paid/laid. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:41, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * --Semyon 15:49, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * (paid/laid) HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) I move this section be removed. 'Layed' and 'payed' are archaisms. --Semyon 15:51, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :Then why do you vote contra (=the first), thus payed/layed? --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:54, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::Whoops. :D Really, why do we consider this? Paid/laid is used in both. --Semyon 15:55, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :::I don't consider archaisms, in fact, I consider them neoisms (or whatever the word is). The hate of english of -yed is stupid, we ought to switch in Lovian english. And that's why I added the note at the top--to say that. just contra for payed/layed, pro for paid/laid. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:56, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::::Well, we're making a Lovian spelling è :P But I do agree. Utherwise, we mite as well cunsidder ritin like this... --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:57, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :::::Ор иван лайк ҙис... --Semyon 16:01, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Nah, I already proposed writing Dutch in cyrillics in Libertas. Somehow it didn't pass though :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:03, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :::::Well, that's different. This is just changing irregular to regular, not changing random words to being phonetic. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 16:02, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Lol. The problem with English is that it has about twenty vowels which Russian doesn't, and the th/dh sound. Still, I was able to borrow the latter from Bashkir... --Semyon 16:04, February 12, 2012 (UTC) Plough/plow * --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:49, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:51, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * --Semyon 15:52, February 12, 2012 (UTC) * -- 01:42, February 14, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:11, May 17, 2015 (UTC) I also move this sentence should be removed. If we consider individual words, we'll be here forever. --Semyon 15:52, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :Not really, some are very common, other's aren't. Plough definitively is common enough to be discussed. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:53, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::How many times have you said 'plough' in the past year? :P --Semyon 15:56, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :::Obviously you don't know Limburg. We're filled with farmers :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:58, February 12, 2012 (UTC) ::::Who all speak English, obviously. :P --Semyon 15:59, February 12, 2012 (UTC) :::::Well, I have said "plógk" (Limburgish for "plough") perhaps a million times and English "plough" very often when discussing the progress on the farm with my fellow students (I study English, though this might not be reflected in my writing skills :P) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:01, February 12, 2012 (UTC) coöperation/co-operation, atheïsm/atheism Note, once again, that these are not American/British spelling variations. * --Semyon 12:34, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:32, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * English is not a languages that naturally uses any diacritics. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 22:20, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:12, May 17, 2015 (UTC) Personally I like cooperation and atheism without the 2 dots on top. HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) :The purpose of the diaeresis is to let the reader know that there are two separate syllables, so they don't pronounce the coop in cooperation like 'coop'. They do it in the NYT, I believe. --Semyon 16:14, February 16, 2012 (UTC) ::But it's not really proper English. And the ö it a German/Turkish word. HORTON11: • 16:55, February 16, 2012 (UTC) ::And btw aren't they called umlaut? HORTON11: • 16:56, February 16, 2012 (UTC) :::It certainly doesn't have to be German or Turkish. Umlaut, by the way, refers to the linguistic process of vowel mutation (e.g. sing/sang/sung in English) which is sometimes marked using a diaeresis in German (e.g. the plural of Maus is Mäuse). However, due to confusion the diaeresis itself is sometimes called an umlaut, which is technically incorrect, I believe. --Semyon 18:00, February 16, 2012 (UTC) ::::No, this is not umlaut. It's a diaeresis. An umlaut is always indicative of a sound change, f.e. Limburgish (:P): zón (sun, pronounce sort of: zon), zön (suns: zern). --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:32, February 16, 2012 (UTC) sceptic/skeptic * --Semyon 12:34, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * HORTON11: • 16:08, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * I'm very sceptic to the use of "skeptic" or summink like that... --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:33, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * ce makes an s sound, so k. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 22:18, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * Let the mother tongue be preserved - Kunarian 22:43, February 16, 2012 (UTC) * 77topaz (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2015 (UTC) * Bart K (talk) 10:35, May 17, 2015 (UTC) * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:13, May 17, 2015 (UTC) :Haha, this is the one I am particularly contra on. The idea of borrowing the spelling directly from Greek rather than through Latin is what particularly rankles. Voting pro on this implies you would also spell 'apocrypha' as 'apokrufa'. --Semyon 16:30, February 16, 2012 (UTC) :And skeptic is internally inconsistent as well; should be skeptik. --Semyon 16:32, February 16, 2012 (UTC) ::Actually, skeptic with 2 k's isn't that bad. And the "sc", as in the Brtish way should technically be pronounced like science. That's why I'm pro. HORTON11: • 16:49, February 16, 2012 (UTC) :::The whole 'spelling should be based on pronunciation' thing is deeply flawed, because dhen yu hav tu spel evrithing layk dhis, or be very hypocritical. English spelling is messed up, deal with it. In the meantime, spelling should be based on etymology. --Semyon 18:07, February 16, 2012 (UTC) ::::We should look at it in a more practical sense. As North America uses the US spelling mostly, Lovia should try and use it as well. HORTON11: • 18:18, February 16, 2012 (UTC) Implementation Shall we implement this? :P --Semyon 09:01, May 22, 2012 (UTC) :Are you sure? You would have to write "skeptic" then :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 10:37, May 22, 2012 (UTC) ::Skeptic makes more sense, though. :P —TimeMaster (talk • ) 10:44, May 22, 2012 (UTC) :::In the end, hardly any English spellings make any sense :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 10:44, May 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::That is the one indisputable fact that's come out of this. :P (Also: 'sceptic' has more votes, so no, implement now, and no 'skeptic' does NOT make sense!) --Semyon 11:15, May 22, 2012 (UTC) :::::Anyway, I think it's time to do this, so implementation :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 06:57, May 23, 2012 (UTC) I'm implementation, for practical reasons. :P --Semyon 12:53, May 17, 2015 (UTC)